500 Caddy into El Camino

[Mike P]

Darren I'm afraid I'm not much help on your question as fortunatly I don't have to deal withemmisions down here (if I did this project would probably never have been started as it will never pass an inspection (engine never available in the body and older than than the body). The best I could tell you would be to get ahold of an inspection station that will actually be doing the testing and see what they will pass. I do believe that a legal swap would be a complete setup form a newer model but I'm not 100% positive. Unfortunatly with the pretty primitive (by todays performance standards) emmissions on this generation of G Body your are pretty limited on making any real improvements.

"....all that 500 low comp cadillac engine is missing is a massive turbo and some injection....."

You have a point turbo 78, I guess I'm just an old fart that doesn't like change though

Now when I do rebuild this motor I am thinking about digging up a set of the big chamber heads and running flat top pistons... that would allow me to swap small chamber heads on and go from 8.2-8.5:1 compression to 12.5-13:1 compression with a head swap and use E85

[dogshit]

fwiw I did this swap with the same motor mounts/kit in an 88 and an 87 Cutlass and used an Edelbrock intake which is 3" taller than the stock intake and fit it under a stock flat hood but had to cut a little of the hood braceing out. Later I cut a whole in the hood and used the inexpensive Lauren engineering hood buldge like what came on the Hurst Olds to cover it. When I did this I also used a 1" spacer to space the air breather up into the hood buldge some. I also added a sheet metal donut to the bottom of my air breather and added foam around it to seal when i shut the hood. I then opened the back of the hood buldge so that it would suck only fresh outside air. You can see it in my pics. Anyway should fit eazy under a stock flat hood with the 1" spacer if as you said you are useing a drop base air breather at least if you are not concerned with cutting out some hood braceing. BTW the hood was still solid and had no noticeable wabble or anything in the center as it does not require a hugh cut out only just enough for the breather.

[Mike P]

Thanks for the info Vern, I think it's going to work with the setup I'm running too, hope so anyway. Were the Cutlass hoods flat or raised like the early Monte Carlo units?

[Doober]

Thanks, you're pointing me in the right direction, which is better than I've been doing on my own I don't really even know where to get started for an older car with emissions.

I had done a little looking at the SEMA action site (http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?I ... m/HomePage) and found out a few things regarding classic/historic cars, and I'm wondering if there's headway I can make there. Really the only major thing is probably the exhaust. I don't know if I'll need an evap. canister or not (gone before I got the car), and I don't know if it had an air pump or not. I'm basically assuming cats as part of the deal, but when I bring it down here (if I do manage to get it together/drivable) I'll probably look at running without them until the tags expire for that year, then put them on. I'm not overly concerned at it passing as the engine is basically stock, with a cam that's 50-state legal for '93 and older engines. My only major concerns are a)what they'll say about the headers, and b)if they'll say anything about the carb/intake/nonexistent egr valve.

[Mike P]

Ok so in spite of what we in the South West tell you we do run into some rust occasionally. In a lot of cases it’s in the floors due to water leaking in windows and soaking the carpet and not being caught.

Although the rest of the truck is solid the floor behind the drivers seat was rusted out. I originally bought the truck as a parts truck and while I knew about this it really didn’t matter at the time.



This is going to be a driver not a show car and the floor of Monte Carlo parts car had surface rust but was solid so it donated a patch. I’ve still got to grind the welds and I’m debating whether to blast the whole floor or just wire wheel the surface rust and coat it, I guess I’ll figure that out later.



Once I got the carpet up I also found out that it had originally been a bench seat truck and at some point someone had added the brackets for the split bench…….just wish they had gotten the passenger side in straight, I’ll have redo those at some point, but it shouldn’t be a big deal.

[Mike P]

I don’t know if anybody picked up on it in the picture above, but the door striker bolt was kind of jury rigged. Once I pulled the plate off I found out why. The reinforcement plate that is spot welded to the back side and holds the captive nut was pretty much toast and the hole on the door jam side was broken out to about a 2” X 2” hole. It’s funny the reinforcement was completely rusted out, but the metal on the door jam itself was still solid to include on the back side.



Fortunately the donor Monte Carlo parts car had a good plate and jam so a bit more welding and one more thing is taken care of.

[78 Green Lemans]

This really gets me thinking about my newly aquired elcamino. I was contemplating a 500 caddy s10 pick up build about a year ago but decided to stick with the small block chev as i couldnt find a decent 500. Now i know of one i can get from a friend.


Also the monte front end and doors look different, in a good way. Have you seen any done with the 81-87 monte front clip and doors?
Ive seen the monte ss nose kit but not the whole thing like you have done. Also wonder what a Lemans or GP camino would look like?

Thank you for sharing this build, maybe others will get some ideas that will save some of those parts cars out there before the crusher gets them.

[Mike P]

I’ve been plugging away with some more little stuff. I got the console brackets welded in and
console and shifter installed and hooked up to the TH400. I haven’t decided If I recover the seats that are in it now (they actually are the same, just upholstered differently) or find something else.



I also ordered a “tucked” rear fiberglass rear bumper from Lauren. I think it really works well with the Monte Carlo front bumper. It’s just sitting on there right now, there will be some fitting to do to actually install it but overall I’m pretty happy with the quality and initial fit.



I went ahead and installed a class III hitch too. It’s a little overkill for anything I will likely pull with the El Camino, but the class II units only have a 1 1/4” ball mount and I already have a bunch of 2” hitch mounts already set up. The only down side to the hitch is that it will probably make the tailpipes hang down too far if I run them out the back, so I’ll probably just dump the exhaust behind the rear tires.

[Ridgeline]

Im in the process of putting a console in my bench seat el camino. It does have the 60 40 so the seat mounts are correct. I do need some pointers on where to weld the console bracket and cut the hole for the shifter cable. Would you happen to have any pictures of the location of the console brackets and the hole for the shifter cable? Thanks

[dogshit]

Mike, sorry about missing your question. Check out pics 2, 3, & 4 in my photo album. Yea basically a flat hood but have a look.

[Mike P]

Thanks Vern.

I picked up a “G” style oil pump from MTS, it’s still snug, but as the truck is currently up on stands and the suspension is unloaded I think I will pick up a little bit more room without having to space the sway bar down.



I spent the last week doing exhaust. Like everything else on this it’s tight too. On the passenger side I had to trim the flange a bit just to get it to fit and on the drivers side there is less than 1/2" clearance between the flange and frame. I’ll probably use a bit of heat and BFH to gain a little frame clearance once I get the engine back out……I don’t need a lot but a bit more would be nice.






When everything was fitted and tacked I pulled the pipe out and welded it all together. I used a couple of ball and socket joints at the mufflers to the whole head pipe can be dropped if I ever have to pull the crossmember and or transmission.





I was really kind of wondering how the tail pipes would fit. When I did the wife’s 84 El Camino last year I used 2 1/4" tail pipes over the stock 7.5 rear end and it was tight. The 2 1/2” flowmaster tailpipes actually fit very well, but I suspect that part of that is due to the Lakewwood upper control arms being a lot narrower than the stock stamped ones.





The tail pipes coming out behind the rear tires came out pretty good too. I still have a bit of welding to do and add one more hanger and some tail pipe tips but the exhaust is pretty much done.

[dogshit]

The x pipe looks real good. I know a lot of people port or cone the exhaust manifold outlet to a full 2.5" to match the 2.5" pipe. The manifold outlet and pipe coming from it to the X is your most important for performance. Its not headers but all it takes is a little time. Cars coming along.

[Mike P]

Thanks Vern.

With the exhaust done, I decided to start on start on the steering column swap. The one that was in the El Camino needs a bit of work (the tilt is loose and it needs at least a turn signal switch) and I have a decent one so I figured I swap them out and go back into the one I took out at a later time and and rebuild it for a future project or to sell.

The column I have is like the one I took out, it's for a column shift and as I've converted to a floor shift I wnet ahead and took the lever off and removed the nub.

It's not that big of a project. I cut the nub off with a cut off wheel and then use an angle grinderto smooth it out.



Fill the hole with body filler and sand.



And then prime.



It beats searching for a floor shift column (and is a bunch cheaper).

[beermonkey9417]

wont the puddy interfere with the internals of the steering colum? id think it would fill up some gaps that need to move and when ya turn it itll break off inside the colum and clog or gum up some of the works. just a thought.

[Mike P]

"....wont the puddy interfere with the internals of the steering colum? id think it would fill up some gaps that need to move and when ya turn it itll break off inside the colum and clog or gum up some of the works. just a thought....."

Thanks for bringing that up. Re-reading my post I forgot to metion I used a small wad up tape in the hole so there wouldn't be a lot of filler in the hole (the thickness of the filler is only around 1/4"). The piece you see in the hole is is only the spring that provided resistance to the shift lever when you pulled it back. The collar still rotates smoothly as it should (and needs to to activate the shift indicator and backup light switch).